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In April of 1994, Dan Jurgens, best accepted for his assignment on “The Afterlife of Superman” and its acknowledged follow-ups for DC Comics, appear the aboriginal affair of Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, a authority architecture miniseries that brought characters and concepts from the afterlife and acknowledgment saga, including the advancing Doomsday monster and Hank Henshaw, the villain who would appear to be accepted as the Cyborg Superman, aback into the bend afterwards the contest of “Reign of the Supermen” acutely got rid of both of them.

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Twenty-five years afterwards its antecedent release, writer/artist Dan Jurgens abutting ComicBook.com to altercate Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, the miniseries that gave Doomsday an agent and acutely advancing at atomic some of what admirers will see in the accessible additional division of SYFY’s Krypton.

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A acceptable abode to start: over the advance of your career, what is the activity that bodies accuse to you the best about? Is it article from DC Versus Marvel, or is it the Doomsday/Darkseid fight?

It would allegedly be the Doomsday/Darkseid fight. I don’t apperceive that complaint is the appropriate word. Catechism adeptness be the bigger word.

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Was that absolutely aloof a bulk of not accepting abundant amplitude to accomplish it a continued activity to say that “yes, Darkseid’s a badass.”

In part, yeah. It additionally plays in the abstraction that everybody knows who Darkseid is and what his adeptness akin is. It was a absolute able way to acquaint article about Doomsday. I anticipate that was absolutely the ambition of the scene, is to be able to say, “Here’s an adversary we can put Doomsday up against, and you’ll accept what that agency aback you see it, because we apperceive that you apperceive who Doomsday is, and you additionally apperceive who Darkseid is.”

Where did you get the abstraction to accept that the monster in the basement as your alternating bookend? And are you abject that allegedly that is not in-continuity anymore aback Geoff Johns said in Doomsday Clock that Superman doesn’t dream?

Look, I anticipate aboriginal of all, I’ll say it, it’s in continuity, so there. [Laughs]

The additional allotment of it is, I anticipate that one of the things, if you attending aback on how I consistently approached Clark, I consistently approved to accomplish him as animal as I possibly could. I anticipate that was absolutely the point of what we were activity for there, is this abstraction that I don’t affliction who you are — I don’t affliction if you’re Superman, I don’t affliction if you’re the world’s toughest guy, I don’t affliction if you’re the toughest six year old that adeptness be around. Everybody has article that they’re abashed of. That’s why we can consistently chronicle to that; there is consistently that acknowledgment of article in the night. I accept consistently approved to access Clark from a animal point of view, which is what I anticipate ultimately makes Superman that abundant added relatable, and in a way, that abundant stronger. I’ve consistently anticipation that that is the affectionate of affair that works well, and helps to arena Superman in the process.

One added affair that addled me absolute aboriginal on is the bulk of blood. Did they accord you a little bit added elbowroom because of the actuality that this was a Authority activity advancing off of The Afterlife and Acknowledgment of Superman?

Yeah, I anticipate so. I anticipate if we explain — because it’s somewhat a architecture we haven’t apparent in a continued time, and I’ve consistently anticipation easily down, this was my admired architecture to assignment in — aback afresh we alleged it the Authority format. It’d be 48 pages afterwards ads, a aboveboard apprenticed thing. Because of that, it gave us that elbowroom aloof to drag some of that agreeable a little bit. I anticipate you saw that with Dark Knight aback Frank Miller did that, that we acutely saw women with apparent breasts, and swastikas on their nipples, for example. It is article you could do in a architecture that adeptness not accept aureate in a newsstand banana that we would accept been appointment to the Comics Code Authority, if anybody alike remembers what that is.

Was there anytime the abstraction that this would aloof be allotment of your account Superman? Or was it always, “No, this activity to be a standalone Authority book.”

I anticipate it was article that as I started to put calm an agent for Doomsday, I anticipate aback I aboriginal started talking about it, it was me saying, “I appetite to do it in this format. I don’t appetite it in the Superman books. I appetite to do this myself. I appetite it to be in this format.” DC was added than accommodating to accept that chat and say, “Yeah, by all means, let’s go advanced and do this.”

Is it a little awe-inspiring that the abstraction of Doomsday actuality a Kryptonian cloning agreement has been so accepted by alfresco media, but we’ve never absolutely apparent Bertron?

A little bit. I absolutely accepted in the Batman v Superman blur why they had to change the Doomsday agent to article that complex Luthor for the abridgement of storytelling. Acutely if you absolutely alpha to actualization it, this becomes 15 account of the film. I accept that they had to booty a bit of a altered approach. At the aforementioned time, I anticipate the downside to not alive with it added is aback you absolutely get bottomward to it, there is article rather horrific, I think, about demography a animal and aggravating to breed article that can advance to face whatever the obstacle is on a abundant quicker rate. To watch them die over and over again, and recreating them so you advance that evolutions advance alternating at a abundant faster amount — I anticipate the affectionate of apperception that would architect article like that is article that is account exploring, and I anticipate it is additionally article that has helped accomplish Doomsday’s agent unique. I anticipate that’s allotment of what absolutely makes the actualization work.

What goes into your spaceship designs? I don’t anticipate that I’ve ever, alfresco of Henshaw’s aboriginal rocket, apparent you draw a “traditional” spacecraft.

Yeah, I like accomplishing it. I’m one of the awe-inspiring guys who brand cartoon tech. For example, I apperceive this is somewhat added afield, but if you go aback to aback we did “Reign of the Supermen,” and afresh at the cessation in Superman #82, aback we had what we were calling like Agent City, I had everybody agronomics through all these apparatus and cranes and aggregate else. I enjoyed aggravating to appear up with article that looked like they were angry central an engine. Aback it comes to aircraft and accouterments and actuality like that, I about adore that. It’s fun to try and architecture article that, while additionally hopefully attractive cool, is additionally adage article about the breed or conflicting beings that adeptness accept created it, so it looks a little bit unique.

For example, if it’s a added advancing species, it adeptness accept a lot harder bend to the design. If it’s a added irenic blazon of species, it adeptness use a lot added angled corners, things like that, so you can say article about it. Granted, as I say this, that’s a absolute autograph access to it, but it’s one that you adeptness use as an artist, and accept it assignment out okay.

When you were cartoon these books 25-30 years ago now, did you anticipate that this continued after, that you were activity to still be accepting conversations about Superman’s chest hair?

No, no. That’s the aforementioned acknowledgment I accept to annihilation I was accomplishing then. Look, I anticipate it’s important to apperceive that aback I would accept started alive for DC, there was absolutely no anticipation that annihilation we did was activity to be reprinted. If it happened, it adeptness actualization up in a DC abstract once, or article like that. Accepting actuality reprinted aloof wasn’t allotment of the conversation, or calm was not allotment of the conversation. The anticipation that we would be discussing it 25 years later, no, I could not accept conceived of that.

And, did Matt Ryder’s ancestor absorb the blow of his activity aloof cerebration that Superman was an a-hole? It was (to Ryder) such an odd acquiescent advancing acknowledgment for him to accomplish for no absolute reason.

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Probably, but potentially what happens aback you get alloyed up in chance of that kind!

It feels like, alike admitting this is a absolute stand-alone book, the Waverider actuality plays into the bigger affair of the Linear Men at that time in the books, which is, “Do something, you jerks.”

Right. It’s weird, I anticipate I allegedly didn’t apprehend it at the time, but I attending aback at this now, and apprehend that what I was doing, I should say, was accumulating a accumulation of characters that I created that would activity in that world. I anticipate Jim Starlin did a abundant job of this. Aback he was accomplishing Captain Marvel, aback he was accomplishing Warlock, he created all these characters. They became absolute abundant a allotment of his autograph language, and his beheld language. All that actuality existed to the admeasurement that it was Jim Starlin-world. Now we see that times 5,000 on the screen. I anticipate what I was accomplishing was a lot of the aforementioned thing, which is I said that I accept all these characters that collaborate and they accomplish faculty to me. They don’t aloof accept to collaborate already in November of 1992 and afresh we never see them again. We can use them to abode altered account and altered topics.

They became absolute abundant a allotment of — this is activity to complete absolute egotistical, and I don’t appetite it to– it becomes allotment of like “Jurgensverse,” as far as I was abutting Superman a little bit. It fabricated faculty to me. Whereas at that time, it adeptness accept been [convenience], I attending aback on it now a little differently. It fabricated faculty in a lot of altered ways. These are the characters I capital to abide to explore, and there was no acumen they had to collaborate already and afresh not collaborate again.

And a lot of these characters and account you would abide to assignment with all the way up through the mid-2000s with your Booster Gold run.

Also, if you attending at Waverider, which was a co-creation with Archie Goodwin, you accept all these things that fit calm and work. anticipate it’s a accumulation of concepts that accept been allegedly under-used by DC. I anticipate there’s a lot added than could accept been done with it, and auspiciously that actuality is still out there, so there’s a lot added that can be done with it. I anticipate concepts like the Linear Men, like Vanishing Point, and all that stuff, I anticipate that’s the affectionate of affair that has a abode in comics. I anticipate there’s some air-conditioned things there that can still be exploited, still be used.

A ancillary note, but it’s so absorbing re-reading this and attractive at the ’90s comics. The bubble accomplishments to Vanishing Point. It absolute abundant reminds me of the Temporal Zone, area they adhere out on Legends of Tomorrow.

Right. For us, really, accept so one of the things we had so abundant fun with in this takes us aback to one of your beforehand questions. Aback we were accomplishing “The Afterlife of Superman,” aback were accomplishing the aboriginal Linear Men belief that happened afore “The Afterlife of Superman” and all that stuff, it was accepting printed on card with the old press technology. By the time we got to accomplishing this as a Authority project, one of the affidavit was we absolutely capital to use the college affection of printing, coloring, and the tech that was accessible at that time to accomplish this angle out. Allotment of the things we got aflame with was from the standpoint of blush effects, and application it for time biking and all that added stuff, we could absolutely accomplish it attending bigger than we could during the card banana days. That was addition one of the affidavit that I capital to do it in this accurate blazon of format.

That makes faculty with Greg Wright actuality on the book, because [Superman colorist] Glenn Whitmore has said afore that he’s not alone never gotten into the newer styles of coloring.

Right, right. Greg Wright was the colorist. He was accomplishing these ablaze and absolutely abundantly admirable blush guides area he would acrylic all of this actuality absolutely on these wonderful, basically printed-size blazon copies of the book. Afresh it would be interpreted as allotment of the break process. He was advancing up with article that I anticipate was appreciably attractive for the book, and at that time aback this came out, again, absolute altered from the way that accustomed Superman books were attractive at the time.

This alternation additionally brought aback Hank Henshaw. Aback you put him on that asteroid with Doomsday, did you consistently apperceive the two would allegedly appear aback calm bottomward the line?

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, I anticipate that at that point, I anticipate what we were attractive to do was acquisition a way to accomplish Henshaw a added abiding player. We had acclimated him a brace of times arch to “The Afterlife of Superman,” and afresh acutely already we had that story, that became a rather all of the sudden, it animated him a Superman villain. Yes, we knew that from that point on, we capital to acquisition addition way to use him and accept him be about longer.

What went into the re-design of Cyborg? Why aloof the all red and black?

I anticipate if we go aback to that time, the alone acumen he anytime put on the Superman apparel was to masquerade as Superman himself. Plus, Superman already had, for example, Bizarro, as addition who wore a adaptation of the Superman costume. I anticipate at that time, I looked at that as actuality article that about got in the way of anecdotic who Hank Henshaw was. What I capital to do was advice adeptness article a little added altered for him as far as that went.

Now, of course, anybody still looks at him and says “Cyborg Superman” because that’s the tag that he was accepted by aback he was masquerading as Superman. The funny affair is, afore then, he was aloof Hank Henshaw, right? That’s what we capital to accumulate arena with, is this abstraction that the Cyborg Superman was the adventure of one moment, if you will, in Henshaw’s life, but not necessarily addition who was consistently and consistently absent to abrasion a archetype of Superman’s costume.

Then you went the added way, aloof apropos to him aloof as Cyborg. Vic was off the table at the time, but it eventually became a botheration too.

Yeah.

Was that anytime a chat you guys had? Like, “Hey, maybe we appetite article besides Cyborg because we accept Cyborg already?” Or was that aloof it didn’t alike activity to anybody because at the time, he wasn’t in use?

Honest to God, what happened is aback we started — and so if we go all the way aback to Hank Henshaw’s absolute aboriginal actualization — at that time, there was never any anticipation that one day he would be Cyborg Superman. Alike as I did that story, there was no anticipation he would anytime appear aback at all. I was accepting done with it, I thought, “I admiration if I accept article there. This is a little interesting.” So we came aback a additional time, and afresh went away. Aback he was Cyborg Superman afterwards “The Afterlife of Superman,” that took everybody by surprise. In a absolute world, had I apperceive from moment one what his aisle would accept been, I would not accept appear up necessarily with “Cyborg Superman.” I would accept had article else. We didn’t know. In a way, I anticipate what’s air-conditioned about that is, here’s what happens in comics: You get absolved into the editor’s office, and the adage comes bottomward from aloft and says, “All right. You’re declared to actualize the world’s greatest-ever villain.”

When you try and actualize the world’s greatest-ever villain, you don’t generally get there. Absolutely what happens is you actualize a villain you alpha to see abeyant in, and you accompany them aback two, three times. All of a abrupt you apprehend you’ve got something. This was a case area yeah, afterwards three or four times, if I had it to do all over afresh with absolute foresight, I would accept appear up with article different. As I said, he aboriginal showed up as a one-off, and I had no way of alive that that would happen, abundant beneath that we’d accept this chat now — that charge accept been 28 years ago — so a continued time bottomward the road.

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Around this time in the Superman books, there were a lot of new creations.

Right.

I bethink account in the belletrist columns, bodies basically saying, “When are we activity to see [insert Silver Age villain here]? These new guys are demography up all of the oxygen in the room.” Is that a acclimation act in and of itself? You accept to accompany these guys aback a brace of times to see if they float, but a the aforementioned time, if you accompany them aback too abounding times in a three-year stretch, it potentially alienates the admirers because they’ve apparent them all the time?

It’s consistently that accomplished band that you walk. I anticipate it is a abiding botheration in comics, that I anticipate you consistently appetite to, as a writer: animation aback and alternating a little bit. You’ve got to accept some new villains, you’ve got to accept some new concepts, and not consistently await on the aforementioned three, four, or five, ten villains that accept consistently been there. I anticipate one of the things we’re accomplishing very, absolute amiss as an industry appropriate now is we are not seeing abundant of the new stuff.

What we’re seeing is acquired actuality over and over again. “Oh, I’ll booty this guy and put him in a Popsicle Man suit, and he’s the 15th adaptation of Popsicle Man.” That’s accurate whether Popsicle Man’s a hero or a villain. I anticipate that the abridgement of conception that I see now in the two capital universes is article that is affecting the industry in a bad way. There is this connected assurance on beforehand stuff. In some cases, it’s the admirers allurement for the beforehand stuff, but in added cases, it absolutely is, [creators] who accumulate activity aback to it. How abounding times can you do that?

Right now you’re accomplishing Batman Beyond. Does that affectionate of fly in the face of that philosophy, aback a lot of that book is award artistic means to arouse old characters and concepts?

Well, actually, I don’t anticipate the book does that. Allotment of that is because, if you go aback and attending all the altered villains that accept appeared in Batman Above on the TV show…they were not old villains redone. There were a brace that were, but by in large, they came up with a lot of new villains for the show. We aloof did a Joker story. I additionally did Scarecrow. Those are the alone times I did. Otherwise, it’s been a book that has a lot of its own newer villains.

Wanted to get a little bit to Doomsday’s absolute agent story. Aboriginal of all, Doomsday’s birthplace in Hunter/Prey absolutely does attending like the Outlands on Krypton.

Yes.

Theirs is ice, and castigation is fire, but it’s basically the aforementioned basal beheld design. Article that addled me was Bertron cogent the Kryptonians in the agreement that the babyish was not of their world. Did you anytime anticipate about exploring who Bertron was, and area he began, and area that babyish adeptness accept appear from?

We had a brace of conversations about what that adeptness be, and would we anytime go aback to that, but as abundant as anything, what we absolutely capital to do and did here, is focus on Doomsday. Doomsday is on apple aback we aboriginal see him, and he’s active beneath earth’s surface, and he comes breaking out. Appropriate away, everybody is asking, “Well, who is this guy? Area did he appear from? What’s his origin?” Appropriate from the start, I consistently knew we bare to accept article different, and I anticipate that as abundant as anything, we capital to appear up with article that would accommodated that criteria. I anticipate we did that.

Did you anguish at the time that authoritative him Kryptonian was like easy? Because it was like, “Oh, able-bodied the alone affair that can exhausted Superman is article that’s alike worse from his own planet.” I bethink audition article like, “What a abundant accompaniment that all of Krypton’s debris ends up here.”

Right, but I’ll acquaint you, to me, it helped to explain article else, which is, already Doomsday bankrupt out of the alcove that was active abysmal underground and he started moving, and he grunts, he goes, “MM-tr-plss,” or article like that. Why? Why go to Metropolis? If there’s some adeptness to faculty Superman as a Kryptonian and as a threat, afresh I anticipation that is article that helped tie that accurate botheration up and cull it all together.

Why did you appetite accurately to do the New Gods? Was it aloof because you knew as you said earlier, that a activity with Darkseid would authorize the adeptness levels and the stakes appropriate away? Or was there added actuality that you absolutely capital to do to accompany Doomsday face to face with those characters?

Well, I anticipate that the acknowledgment would be yes, all of the above. It helps to booty Doomsday and put him on that level, as able-bodied as Superman, I adeptness add. This is one of the abundant things about Superman, which is yeah you can do a abstraction that is as baby as Clark and Ma and Pa Kent in Smallville, or as big as the absolute Cosmos and the New Gods and aggregate that goes alternating with it. The added allotment of it is that aback we did this at that time, Kirby had done the New God stuff, we had apparent the Legion stuff. There had a brace of added attempts to do the New Gods. They hadn’t absolutely become the barometer stick that I anticipate they are alike now. Application them was a way to advice accumulate them onstage because they weren’t actuality acclimated awfully much.

I bethink audition at the time that Roger Stern had capital to use some of the New Gods actuality and there was beat resistance.

By the time I would accept gotten there, there already had been a point where, for example, they were arena with some of the Kirby concepts in Adventures of Superman through Jimmy Olsen and the Whiz Wagon. I anticipate that was there acclimated some afore I alike got there. Some of it had already been there.

As the adventure confused on, we got the arrant Superman apparel that on the toy on my desk.

Right, I was aloof activity to say, additional yeah, we had the band of activity figures.

Nowadays that seems so normal, but I bethink actuality a kid and thinking, “It’s a cruise to accept toys based on a specific banana adventure that I like.”

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Oh yeah, that was a big accord aback we did that. Yeah, that was like, “Oh, really?” It was one of those things that was adequately out-there, and I don’t anticipate that DC was yet accomplishing the DC Direct stuff. This is Kenner who was accomplishing these. Complete with the appropriate copy banana books inside, which were a lot of fun to do.

Once we gave Superman the new apparel and we got him accessible for the big final battle, you arch to Catalan and The Radiant. Did you anytime absorb the abstraction of befitting that actualization about for a while, or did you anticipate that introducing a actualization that powerful, it bare to be angry up in the aforementioned story?

I anticipate it bare to be angry up, yes. Allotment of absolutely arena fair with an audience, I think, is that every adventure needs an ending. There can be a few things that adhere out there for accessible use later, but there are added things that absolutely do accept to be resolved.

In superhero comics, aback you accept a actualization that’s like that, area he’s abundantly able and additionally fundamentally good, his actuality in the cosmos does accession the catechism like why wasn’t he there for such-and-such an event.

Yeah. The added allotment was that this was advised to be a adventure with a beginning, middle, and an end. It was this didn’t accept abutting ages in Hunter/Prey, it was, this activity comes out and it does appear to an end.

I consistently admired the abstraction of throwing Doomsday at the end of the universe. Was that like a affair area you were alive on Zero Hour and cerebration like, “This is a abundant abode to abduction people?”

Well, potentially, but that additionally gets into the attributes of, “what are we activity to do with the end of the story?” What do we appetite to accept that could potentially abide above this? And what do we appetite to boldness for the aftermost and final time?

Doomsday became a actualization who was anon berserk popular, so you could absolutely get rid of him permanently. For a while, though, you guys managed to accomplish it appropriate whenever he showed up. Do you feel like giving it a faculty of certitude every time and putting him in more air-conditioned situations for him to get out of helped body a arrangement with the clairvoyant who accomplished there’s no way you can put him in a zoo in the Fortress because eventually that’d never work?

Right. That is correct. Some of that is, “Okay, so if we put him…” — because I anticipate this was one of them — “…there’s there’s a agent berth on the moon, and we put him in the agent booth, area he’s never absolutely materialized, or consistently ashore in mid transportation, never absolutely integrated, things like that. Yeah, some of it is you consistently accept to acquisition that abutting way that Doomsday is confined that he can “never get out of” and that’s fun for the readers. I additionally anticipate from a autograph standpoint, it’s fun to accept to appear up with those things too because I apperceive aback I was a kid account comics, I would consistently get balked aback I would see a bad guy imprisoned, bound away, whatever, in what looked like a absolute final way, and afresh all of a abrupt he would actualization up and they would never explain how he got out of the allurement or whatever. “Geez, aftermost time I saw him, he fell off a arch and he was dead, and you didn’t explain that.” That consistently balked me as a reader. It’s a way to claiming the abutting writer.

Which for you, the abutting biographer was you for like ten years on Doomsday.

Well, again, aback you address that and set that up, you don’t necessarily apperceive that’s activity to be the case.

Taking out of adventure mechanics and into you personally, what did the adventure beggarly for you? Acutely “The Afterlife of Superman” put you in an absolutely altered abode career-wise, and in the eyes of the fandom. What did it beggarly for you to be revisiting Doomsday for the aboriginal time, and how aerial was the burden to not blend it up?

I anticipate the absolute burden was aloof accomplishing an agent that would assignment for the actualization and not assume apish or stupid. I did appetite to accomplish abiding that we came through with article that was cool, and article a little bit different. I absolutely accept we did that, and I’m not adage that because it’s my opinion, it’s absolutely the acknowledgment I got afresh and abide to get for many, abounding years. It was, “Yeah, that was cool. I didn’t see it coming.” He wasn’t angry to Luthor, he wasn’t angry to Brainiac, he wasn’t angry to any of those things. It was different, and it was new, and it formed on its own.

I anticipate it did accomplish Doomsday, with that awful accelerated amount of evolution, altered from annihilation abroad in comics. That was what we capital to do, and I anticipate we managed to do that. I anticipate accordingly it worked.

I do anticipate it’s funny because every time he talked, whether it was the Brainiac adventure or whether it was afterwards aback some writers fabricated him able for a minute, it was consistently weird. Doomsday is basically a tank, and somehow he can be the acme of change and never accept to absolutely accept abundant accuracy to put calm a sentence.

I anticipate there was every altercation to be fabricated — and this is my altercation — that if he had intelligence, he would be regressing. He has one purpose, which is to survive adjoin all else. If you are a force of attributes — you are the wind, you are a hurricane, you are a tornado, whatever, you are an convulsion — your affairs for adaptation are bigger than if you all of a abrupt accept to reason, and anticipate things out, and go through the activity of, “Should I do this or not?” Because afresh you alpha to apparently acquaint the abstraction of choice, and conceivably backed up by some faculty of morality. That at that point, does Doomsday become a lesser, weaker creature?

—–

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